Talk:Ansco Viking 6.3
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HaarFager: You indicated the primary image overlaps the infobox on your display. What screen/browser width were you looking at it with? There seemed to be plenty of room on mine but after doing a screen cap and measuring it looks like a min of 1024 px wide was needed. I looked at the infobox and realized it was not sized correctly for the flickr image size it used. After resetting the size, it looks like it should knock 100px at least off the required page width, so I'm going back to the larger size for the primary image. I'd like to get some feedback from multiple people on whether it's working for them before changing it.
Also noticed you removed the V category. According to my reading of the guidelines, we should add an alphabetic category tag for Manufacturer name ('A' in this case) and the camera Model ('V' in this case). The main index page of the site provides a link to the alphabetized model cat listing, and this camera won't show up under V without that tag, unless I'm missing something?
Steevithak 15:26, 9 February 2011 (PST)
- I never thought about browser/screen issues. That seems to be a problem on a lot of places I go. We seem to be in flux these days, with a lot people switching over to the new "widescreen" monitors and others sticking with the standard "4:3" monitor. Until something is standardized, we'll probably have screen issues. I don't know how to correct something so that everybody can see it correctly. Maybe it can't be done.
- As to my removing the "V" category, I had a long talk about that last night with Vox. I contended that it cluttered up the index, to make it short what I was saying to him, I went to the "M" section and there were "M's," "P's," "S's" and "L's" all listed under the "M" section. This is just too confusing and not how it should be working. By removing all the excess categories such as the "V" from your Ansco/Agfa camera, it showed up where it was supposed to show up - under the "A." If you'll notice, I did add one other category to broaden how it is picked up by the index. That did the same job as your having placed the "V," and prevented it from showing up as a "V" in the "A" index. I think the guideline that says to do this needs to be corrected so that this doesn't keep happening. If we list every camera by it's manufacturer and model, every index letter will have every camera, thus removing it's helpfulness and ease of use.
- I didn't mean any offense by changing the size of the one image of yours on the Ansco Viking 6.3 page, so I hope it didn't come off as me trying to be a know-it-all or something. HaarFager 16:21, 9 February 2011 (PST)
- This is what the Ansco page looked like over here on my monitor and you can see why I felt the need to shrink it down. It clearly overlaps the infobox on the right:
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- Wow, that looks totally broken! It's an inline image, so it should be moved down below the info box on low resolution screens. I'm guessing it's an IE rendering bug. If you have a more standards-compliant browser like Firefox or Chrome try checking it in one of those. I'd be curious if they also show the overlap thing. If I squeeze the width of my browser way down, the image just drops lower down on the page to avoid conflicting with the info box. From that screen grab, I'm guessing your display is 640x480 or something like that? I don't think it's an aspect ration problem (e.g. 4:3 vs 16:9) so much as a screen res issue. Most displays are > 1024 wide these days so that's what web pages are designed for. Anyway, here's a screen capture from my laptop showing the same page as viewed on Firefox:
- I'm not sure I follow what you mean on the "V" category. When I click on V in the Camera model index I don't see the Ansco Viking listed, but it should be there. Remember the Ansco is Manufacturer/Seller, not the model. The model is Viking with a V. Otherwise we should change the name of the index to the camera Manufacturer index if we're not going to categorize by model (though an index of manufactures doesn't seems particularly useful to me).
Steevithak 20:49, 9 February 2011 (PST)
- I'm not sure I follow what you mean on the "V" category. When I click on V in the Camera model index I don't see the Ansco Viking listed, but it should be there. Remember the Ansco is Manufacturer/Seller, not the model. The model is Viking with a V. Otherwise we should change the name of the index to the camera Manufacturer index if we're not going to categorize by model (though an index of manufactures doesn't seems particularly useful to me).
- Yeah, your's look right. So, I don't know what to do. It doesn't really matter if it only looks right for the editors' computers, it has to be right for every computer or it doesn't work. I don't think a Manufacturer index would be particularly useful, either. That's why we should have the index go by the full name of the camera, i.e., Kodak Brownie. Several different companies made a camera called a "Brownie," so if you had an entry in the index under just "Brownie," it couldn't lead to all the different versions. That's why it needs to be predicated with the manufacturer and the model combined. Maybe there is no solution. HaarFager 20:58, 9 February 2011 (PST)
- If the page is named correctly, then both the manufacturer and model will show up in the model index. In your example, if we marked all brownie cameras with a B, then when a user finds a brownie and wants to learn more about it, they'd click "B" in the model index and see "Kodak Brownie Hawkeye", "Beau Brownie No2A", etc. giving them a good chance of finding what they've got. On the other hand if we use only the Manufacturer name, they'd probably never be able to find them because the "B"s would actually be scattered all over the index under letters like "K" where you wouldn't immediately think to look for a Brownie. (keep in mind most people aren't experts and may have no idea what company manufactured the camera they've got). Anyway, this has been a worthwhile discussion on both fronts, it show the need to make some policy decisions among the site admin on what page width we're designing for as well as how to index things.
Steevithak 06:51, 10 February 2011 (PST)- I think we're both talking about the same thing. What you're describing is already working here on the Camera wiki. I have no problem with that, it's very helpful for everybody. What I thought was not right, I corrected. There were only 30 or 40 cameras that did this but when you searched the "B" index, for example, there would be a few other letters listed in addition to "B." It would show all the "B's" and then "continued," (as in more "B's" in another column), and then after all the "B's" were listed, it would show a couple other letters, such as "M" and "T," with a camera model or two listed under that letter heading, and these would be on the "B" index page. This is the only thing I thought was confusing. Having a "Brownie" show up on the "B" index page, when it's categorized properly, doesn't throw off the way the indexing works. I can't add a link to show the old history of an index page, but it doesn't work that way. But, it wasn't right in only a few instances. That's what I corrected. Other than that, the more chances to find the specific camera you're searching for, the better. HaarFager 08:32, 10 February 2011 (PST)
- Addendum: I just found another instance where someone has put the wrong category name on a camera, or didn't format it properly for it to show up correctly in the index. Go to the "A" index page and scroll to the end of it. (Next 200 link). You'll see a "V" category listed under the "A" index page. That shouldn't be there. It should be coded correctly so that it shows in the "V" index page or fits into the "A" index like the camera two names above it does, i.e. "Fujica AX-5." Notice how it's a "Fujica" camera, but it shows up in the "A" index for it's model name of "AX-5." This is how the index was created to work. HaarFager 08:39, 10 February 2011 (PST)
- Interesting, I see what you mean. I played around with the V tag on this page again and was able to produce exactly the problem you're talking about. I hadn't noticed that before. It took some experimenting but it looks to me like the correct tags for Ansco Viking to avoid the problem you're seeing are "A" and "V|Viking 6.3, Ansco". If I put in a straight "V" tag it generates the spurious "A" category within the "V" category. Take a look at the A and V areas now and see if this works for you.
- That's exactly how the index should work - what you've done for both the "A" and the "V" instances of the Ansco Viking 6.3. I was just explaining it badly. I need to go to the "A" index and remove the "V" and "Voigtlander Avus" entry. But, I'll leave it a little while longer in case somebody else wants to see it. HaarFager 15:20, 10 February 2011 (PST)
- Interesting, I see what you mean. I played around with the V tag on this page again and was able to produce exactly the problem you're talking about. I hadn't noticed that before. It took some experimenting but it looks to me like the correct tags for Ansco Viking to avoid the problem you're seeing are "A" and "V|Viking 6.3, Ansco". If I put in a straight "V" tag it generates the spurious "A" category within the "V" category. Take a look at the A and V areas now and see if this works for you.
- Addendum: I just found another instance where someone has put the wrong category name on a camera, or didn't format it properly for it to show up correctly in the index. Go to the "A" index page and scroll to the end of it. (Next 200 link). You'll see a "V" category listed under the "A" index page. That shouldn't be there. It should be coded correctly so that it shows in the "V" index page or fits into the "A" index like the camera two names above it does, i.e. "Fujica AX-5." Notice how it's a "Fujica" camera, but it shows up in the "A" index for it's model name of "AX-5." This is how the index was created to work. HaarFager 08:39, 10 February 2011 (PST)
- I think we're both talking about the same thing. What you're describing is already working here on the Camera wiki. I have no problem with that, it's very helpful for everybody. What I thought was not right, I corrected. There were only 30 or 40 cameras that did this but when you searched the "B" index, for example, there would be a few other letters listed in addition to "B." It would show all the "B's" and then "continued," (as in more "B's" in another column), and then after all the "B's" were listed, it would show a couple other letters, such as "M" and "T," with a camera model or two listed under that letter heading, and these would be on the "B" index page. This is the only thing I thought was confusing. Having a "Brownie" show up on the "B" index page, when it's categorized properly, doesn't throw off the way the indexing works. I can't add a link to show the old history of an index page, but it doesn't work that way. But, it wasn't right in only a few instances. That's what I corrected. Other than that, the more chances to find the specific camera you're searching for, the better. HaarFager 08:32, 10 February 2011 (PST)
- If the page is named correctly, then both the manufacturer and model will show up in the model index. In your example, if we marked all brownie cameras with a B, then when a user finds a brownie and wants to learn more about it, they'd click "B" in the model index and see "Kodak Brownie Hawkeye", "Beau Brownie No2A", etc. giving them a good chance of finding what they've got. On the other hand if we use only the Manufacturer name, they'd probably never be able to find them because the "B"s would actually be scattered all over the index under letters like "K" where you wouldn't immediately think to look for a Brownie. (keep in mind most people aren't experts and may have no idea what company manufactured the camera they've got). Anyway, this has been a worthwhile discussion on both fronts, it show the need to make some policy decisions among the site admin on what page width we're designing for as well as how to index things.
- Yeah, your's look right. So, I don't know what to do. It doesn't really matter if it only looks right for the editors' computers, it has to be right for every computer or it doesn't work. I don't think a Manufacturer index would be particularly useful, either. That's why we should have the index go by the full name of the camera, i.e., Kodak Brownie. Several different companies made a camera called a "Brownie," so if you had an entry in the index under just "Brownie," it couldn't lead to all the different versions. That's why it needs to be predicated with the manufacturer and the model combined. Maybe there is no solution. HaarFager 20:58, 9 February 2011 (PST)
Vikings
I've been doing a lot of work today on Agfa Ansco, which was the merged company from 1928 until 1943. They had one USA-built "Viking" model which I am covering already; but it seems by the 1950s Ansco was importing Agfa Billy and Agfa Record cameras and giving them the Viking name. There were two styles of viewfinder and several lens options, so you may want to consider how to organize "the family." --Vox 16:41, 27 February 2011 (PST)
