Talk:Reisekamera

Double article? why?

Jan,

You, the author of the second variant of this article, see the Reisekamera as derived from the studio camera. But looking a little deeper into camera history these cameras were obviously derived from early portable camera designs. The earliest bellows cameras were made in 1839, and (according to Kleffe/Langner) simple predecessors maybe even used by Niépce. Of course this invention lead soon to portable camera constructions. One of the camera designs is shown by R.C. Smith, looking almost like the direct predecessor of the Reisekamera.

Another issue is that Reisekameras were not just made with non-tapering bellows. A lot were made with tapering bellows. And the student camera or Schülerkamera (German) became a common variant, with 9x12 plate format the predecessor of one common European plate camera size before WWII.

The non tailboard camera types of the Reisekamera are missing in the second text variant

I've put most of Your text into the upper variant of the article. Thus, sorry, it looks like we have a little redundancy. U. Kulick 18:51, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

Difference with "field camera"

Isn't "Reisekamera" the German word for a "field camera", which is a view camera with which you can go to the field? When I read the description of "field camera" in this or this page at Wikipedia, I don't understand the difference between both concepts. --Rebollo fr 07:06, 3 January 2009 (EST)

No. Reisekamera is to be translated as "travel camera". The topic of the article is the type of camera that was marketed as a distinguishable kind of view camera mainly under the names "Reisekamera", "Reise-Camera", "Schüler-Kamera" (student's camera), "travel camera", "chambre de voyage", or under other names but with that characteristic camera design, mainly made around the year 1900, the Soviet FKD camera maybe even made until ca. 1975. The cameras were foldable for portablility and needed not that very heavy kind of tripod used for studio cameras. Thus not all portable view cameras with the name "Reisekamera", "travel camera" or so followed the mainstream tailboard architecture with rear focusing, some had just the difference of front focusing, for example a Voigtländer Reisekamera of 1890, others tended to be more sophisticated field cameras, for example the Houghtons Ensign Reisekamera (both examples in Abring Vol. 1) as well as other English and French camera models. "Continental View" is another term common for the type of travel camera meant in this article. U. Kulick 13:57, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Edit conflict?

When I look at the present state of the article, I see a mess. There are two introductory sentences, at two different places, and some paragraphs are duplicated. It is obvious that something went wrong, and that there is some sort of "edit conflict". For the moment, I added a "clean-up" banner at the top of the article, so that the readers are conscious that there is some problem, and that this is not a typical Camerapedia article.

I am worried by this situation. Before looking at the article in depth, I first want to state that Camerapedia used to be a quiet place, where the contributors are working together peacefully. I consider this as an important feature of this website, and I'm not prepared to see "edit conflicts" happening here.

When I look at the history page, I see disturbing edits on the part of both main contributors, and an obvious lack of communication: the article, originally created by Jan, was rewritten from scratch, forked, reverts were made with no proper explanation (or comments such as "reducing information loss" with no question asked in the talk page). And I see a complete lack of any meaningful edit summary, other than "contrib", "edit txt" and the like. I urge both contributors to add meaningful edit summaries for each edit, including those made on other articles.

I would like the two main contributors to clarify their views on the talk page before making other edits, and I am confident that this article will be repaired soon, with some efforts and patience on both sides.

--rebollo_fr 09:36, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

Re. Messed up article.

Introducing the Reisekamera at Camerapedia by creating this article seemed a useful contribution at the time, being a quite conspicuously homogenous, yet quite unassuming camera type, of which several seem to be of unknown origin, a fact in itself an intriguing topic. Unfortunately, the result is a mess, as well as an unpleasant experience.

The improved original article, as found now under the heading INTRODUCTION, is self-explanatory, and should need no comment. In the long run it will surely be improved upon and find its proper shape, hopefully by the help of more contributors.

There has not been so much a conflict as a lack of common purpose. The subject of this article has turned into one about bellows cameras, encompassing a wide range of cameras not readily suitable for the Reisekamera heading, possibly allowed by translating and transcribing the entry word. Unfortunately, these cameras do not fit the Reisekamera description, which is worked out quite accurately in detail for the Reisekamera contribution. It is literally impossible, and certainly pointless, to try to incorporate all these cameras into the text, having differing features and descriptions, while at the same time maintain some degree of clarity and usefulness for the Camerapedia reader.

The key features identifying the Reisekamera are indeed the qualities as described by J. M. Eder in 1892, eminently clarified by several illustrations, all without exception, described as showing the Reisekamera, as reproduced in Historische Kameras from the DDR collection by Kleffe and Langner. This book is of course one of several sources for the messed up article in question. Moreover, similar cameras in this book are not called Reisekameras, but Amateurkamera, Shülerkamera and so on, and would therefore need separate encyclopaedic entries. Clearly the two authors already thirty years ago were quite clear about what a Reisekamera was, as was J.M. Eder hundred years before them.

Possibly the present content would benefit from being split into two or perhaps more articles. Wooden bellows cameras could be a starting point. Tailboard cameras might be a subgroup under which the Reisekamera should find its proper place.

With respect, Jan 09.07.11.

What is a Reisekamera?

Reisekamera was a term mainly used for a certain design of tailboard cameras. Many "Schüler-Kameras" were indeed smaller variants of the tailboard Reisekameras. The Vojta represents a main alternate front focusing design of the Reisekameras. Abring shows in his Vol. I "From Daguerre to Today" a similar German Reisekamera of ca. 1900 and a quite similar Reisekamera of Houghtons. 3 of 9 simpler Reisekameras in H.D. Abring's book are front focusing. One sophisticated tailboard Reisekamera is also shown there, and 4 better front focusing field cameras including the Houghtons and three Gaumont cameras with own design, all presented as Reisekamera.

And there's not just Abring to mention. An important article is this one about the chambre de voyage, explaing us that these were also known as "Continental View", an important information since camerapedia has at least 99% articles in English (Somebody started a series of a few alternate articles in French).