Camera-wiki.org:Community discussions/A new home for Camerapedia

Greetings Camerapedia Community,

Back in 2004 I asked several of my photoblogging friends to tell me which cameras they owned. It turned into a fun, informal kind of survey that caught some attention. After hundreds of responses I realized that the list of cameras might be helpful somehow, so I posted it onto a wiki. I gave everyone free rein to make sense of the raw data and to start organizing it into pages.

Several people happily took up the challenge and started moving things around. A directory of cameras began to form. It looked like it could actually become an encyclopedia of sorts, so I found a domain name and gave the wiki its own home.

Over 6 years later the project has 39 million views, 96 thousand page edits, 37 thousand Flickr photo uploads, 19 thousand registered users, and thousands of camera articles. Pretty neat.

Now it’s time to find the Camerapedia a more permanent and safe place to live. That’s where Wikia comes in.

I'm excited to announce that the Camerapedia will be joining the Wikia family of wikis. Over the next week or so, a migration will be taking place and I'd like to share a few of the factors that went into the decision and help answer any questions you may have.

Here are a few of the benefits of moving Camerapedia to Wikia:

• As the Camerapedia community continues to grow, stability becomes more and more important. By moving, Camerapedia will be on Wikia's world class geographically distributed hosting platform, which should increase speed and reliability for all users world wide.
• We will have access to the entire Wikia team which includes: Programmers, System Administrators, Graphic Designers, Spam Fighters, etc.
• We will have access to all of the Wikia custom wiki extensions and features.
• We will work together with Wikia’s content team to promote and grow the wiki.

From the community side, nothing will change. Everyone is welcome to stay in their current roles and Wikia will work to support us in any way possible.

Below is a FAQ I have prepared in coordination with Wikia. If you’ve got any additional questions, please post them and myself and Sannse, Sean, and Jeska from Wikia will be happy to answer.

I feel that this is the best next step for the Camerapedia project. I’ve spent many years making sure that this site is available to the world, and my aim is to continue in that tradition.

I’m very pleased to make this move and hope you will all join me in checking out what Wikia has to offer. We are planning to move to the new servers early next week and although we’ve planned out a smooth technical transition, there are sometimes bumps or bugs in moves like this. I’d encourage all of you to be patient and please let us know if you see any technical issues as we move forward to create Camerapedia’s future together.

Cheers,

Brandon Stone

FAQ

Why Wikia?

Wikia hosts many of the largest public wikis so they have got the experience Camerapedia will need as it grows to make sure it stays online and can grow without limits. Wikia has been running for more than 6 years and is a stable company that Camerapedia can rely on long into the future. Wikia offers unlimited bandwidth and server space.

Who owns the content?

As before, the ownership of the content remains with you, the authors. Wikia hosts the content under the same GFDL license as before, which guarantees your rights as authors are maintained. Wikia has purchased the domain name <camerapedia.org> as part of the moving agreement, and will point this to the new URL at camerapedia.wikia.com.

Will there be ads?

Ads for logged in users are usually limited to the wiki's home page. The removal of most ads by registering and logging in encourages more people become part of your community. Unregistered readers will see ads. To help in the transition, the first month at Wikia will be ad-free for everyone.

Will my user account change?

Your current account will be transferred to Wikia. If you already have a Wikia account with the same username, then we can merge the accounts. We will help in resolving any name conflicts for anyone who's account name matches another account on Wikia. More information on user accounts in this blog.

Will the site content or policies change?

As always, decisions about content and policy are in the hands of the community. Wikia's terms of use are designed to give each community as much autonomy as possible in how they run their wiki. Brandon will remain as an admin of the wiki and will be active in its continued growth and development.

Will the look and feel of the site change?

The default skin for users will be the Wikia skin. Monobook is also available as a personal choice for logged in users. The Wikia skin can be themed to suit the wiki and Wikia will provide professional design if the community wants that help. Or, of course, admins can use our ThemeDesigner tool to create your own theme.

What about the Camerapedia images on Flickr?

The images used from Flickr will still show up on the new site. Wikia also has a tool to copy photos from Flickr and host them on the wiki, which can prevent any lost photos (for example, if someone's account is no longer available).

Will we get any other new features?

Wikia has dozens of extensions, some of which are enabled automatically, and many more than can be turned on on request. For example, Wikia has extensions that make it easier to add category galleries, Top Ten lists, standard page layouts, as well as lots of anti-spam tools and emergency anti-vandalism tools to negate the effects that malicious users might have on the site. All of Camerapedia's existing extensions will continue to work.

What about other languages?

Wikia can create new language editions of Camerapedia very quickly. A new wiki for any language can be created at http://requests.wikia.com/ and these can be linked to Camerapedia via the interlanguage linking system on request.

What about MediaWiki upgrades?

Wikia stays up to date with the latest stable release of MediaWiki, so upgrades are regularly done, and in a way that does not affect the wiki. You should not experience any downtime as the result of an upgrade.

Will Camerapedia be promoted on Wikia?

Yes. Camerapedia will be cross promoted on other Wikia sites, which should lead to more users, more editors and more high quality content. Wikia already hosts several other photography and creative wikis, including the epic Canon Hacking wiki http://chdk.wikia.com. Members of Wikia’s content team will work together with Camerapedia to determine what types of promotions, events and other content-focused marketing will best support the community.

Will Wikia be able to help us when we have issues?

Yes, Wikia’s technical, community support, product and content marketing teams will be available for assistance both during the transition and in the future. The Community Support team is available at all times via email, and talk pages. They can also be available for live chat on request.

I've got other questions, where can I discuss this?

If you would like to ask Brandon or the Wikia's staff any questions about this move, please post them below.

Further questions and discussion

How much was it sold for, and what was sold?

I am happy to be the first to ask a question, after so much opportunity for debate was offerred:

What was the price for this?

--rebollo_fr 17:27, 19 January 2011 (EST)

The sale of the domain name is a private issue between me and Wikia. Again, the content is not something that I can or did sell. That remains the copyright/property of the authors, hosted under the existing GFDL license. --Lbstone 18:15, 19 January 2011 (EST)

This is a formal notification to Lbstone and the new owners of CAMERAPEDIA at WIKIA.COM that I have pulled out of the CAMERAPEDIA group on FLICKR. I no longer give CAMERAPEDIA permission to use any my images without paying Royalties/Copyright fees. This takes effect of seven (7) days from this posting, or a move of the site to camerapedia.wikia.com, which ever comes earlier. Thank You.... posted by GitzoCollector at 00:13, 20 January 2011

I saw your edit summary, GitzoCollector -- there was no intention to ignore this statement, but not really any question for us to answer either. I'm sorry you are unhappy, and hope that you will give us a chance to show you that a move to Wikia's hosting can work well for the wiki. -- Sannse 15:02, 24 January 2011 (EST)

The fundamentals have not changed one iota. No, for you there is no question to answer, just to ensure that WIKIA as the new owners is not infringing on my copyright...--GitzoCollector 17:02, 24 January 2011 (EST)

I guess that it would be difficult to find admins for good old camerapedia since so many rights issues could occur when image contributors change their policy towards the site.U. Kulick 21:22, 19 January 2011 (EST)

Agreement to have photos appear within Camerapedia

I am in the middle of joining the group right now. Here's what the process tells me: If you add photos to the Camerapedia pool you should know and agree that all pictures of this pool can be linked into the pages of the non-commercial camera encyclopedia website Camerapedia.org. No mention in that of the commercial website Wikia.com. -- Hoary 21:34, 19 January 2011 (EST)

Uwe, I haven't changed my polices re 'good old camerapedia' one iota ...as Hoary says, when I made my images happily available, and actually went to great lengths and time to make sure I shoot images of the cameras from all angles (a walk-around essentially), I did so as Camerapedia was advertised and publicised as a 'non-commercial camera encyclopedia website'...if matters had stayed non-commercial I would have continued to add many more, which I have ready to shoot...I very strongly believe pro bono work...I did not change my policies at all, but unfortunately Camerapedia, or to be more specific, Lbstone did....--GitzoCollector 21:44, 19 January 2011 (EST)

Lbstone, it's not private when you make money off of a site built on others work that was done for free with the understanding that the site would be non-commercial. We provided content for this site and you make the money off of it? You could not have sold this site without our content providing it commercial worth. In my eyes, that means you dealt with us, the content providers, under false pretenses. Therefore I have removed all of my images from this site as well as the Flickr page and hereby refuse to grant you the right to use or display any of my images until this situation has been rectified. McFortner 00:24, 20 January 2011 (EST)

Was the amount of the transaction properly estimated, and on which basis?

I will leave up to Wikia Inc.'s paid staff to decide if they made a realistic estimate of the monetary value of the domain name. I would like to hear their comment on what part of this estimate was actually constituted by the work of 19,693 unpaid volunteers. (In case some of them are tempted to misinterpret my sentence, this is not a call for money and I will refuse any offer.)

I also welcome the opinion of unpaid staff, and I would particularly like to hear the opinion of new contributor Sannse on that interesting matter. (Maybe I'm making a confusion and Sannse is paid too. Any clarification on that subject will be welcome.)

My own decision to review my past correspondence with Lbstone may also inspire Wikia Inc.'s paid staff to compare the current reactions posted to this page with the predictions that were presented to them. I'm sure they have infinitely more options than me, humble citizen of a foreign country, to take appropriate action if they feel they have been misleaded in some way or another. --rebollo_fr 16:13, 20 January 2011 (EST)

As Lbstone said, the details of the domain name sale are confidential, but I'm happy to clarify my role :) I'm work full-time for Wikia, as do Jeska and Sean (which are the other names you are likely to see here). Before Wikia I was a volunteer with Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation, so I've been on wikis for quite a while now. In general, those marked as "staff" on the Wikia user list work for Wikia, while "helpers" may be contractors, interns, or volunteers. -- Sannse 13:02, 21 January 2011 (EST)

Which license will be used?

Every page of Camerapedia (I think) says that its content is released under the GFDL 1.2. (Indeed, as I write this I'm told that it's released under GFDL 1.2.)

Wikia says that Except where otherwise specified, the text on Wikia sites is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported) (CC-BY-SA).

So what about this new Camerapedia-at-Wikia? Am I right in assuming that it will be a massive GFDL 1.2 exception to the site's general rule of Creative Commons? -- Hoary 04:56, 20 January 2011 (EST)

A quick search led me to these three pages:

• the GFDL 1.2 as posted at Camerapedia
• Wikipedia's page on the GFDL describing how it was once possible to relicense contents from GFDL 1.3 to Creative Commons without actually asking the authors
• Wikia's official licensing policy stating that all of Wikia contents is under CC-BY-SA 3.0

I would be interested to hear the paid Wikia staff to explain the ex-authors of this former community how they will make all this fit together.

--rebollo_fr 11:46, 20 January 2011 (EST)

Hi, I'm one of Wikia's Community Support team -- I'm happy to answer questions and help in any way I can.

The key part of the quote above is "except where otherwise specified". We host a few wikis on licenses other than the CC-by-sa. I think there are still a couple around that decided to stay on the GFDL when we (and Wikipedia) switched to CC-by-sa, and there are a few that use variations on the Creative Commons license. You can see how we show this on each page on Memory Alpha which uses CC-by-nc (Creative Commons, attribution, non-commercial).

And that actually brings me to another point. Wikia provides hosting and support for communities in return for site advertising. The community itself remains non-commercial, but the hosting and support is paid for via the ads rather than by Lbstone personally. This is why we are able to host communities on -nc licenses as well as those that allow commercial use such as the GFDL.

Images on all wikis may be under licenses different from the text - that information is traditionally added to the file page as a template (I'm not sure if you already use this system, if not I'm happy to help set it up)

Please let me know if you have other questions on this or anything else -- Sannse 13:20, 20 January 2011 (EST)

"The community itself remains non-commercial" is utter non-sense. Once you wrap an advertising skin around content, you are making profit from that content...and elegantly so, as you pay nothing for the intellectual content and have others do the work without any financial return to them. --GitzoCollector 13:26, 20 January 2011 (EST)

The return to the community is in free hosting and support. We offer unlimited bandwidth and storage space (well... no wiki - including some of the biggest online - have found a limit yet ;) as well as a range of staff providing technical and community support.

rebollo_fr said on my talk page "I'm not sure that I completely understood your statement on behalf of Wikia Inc. that it is a non-commercial company". Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Wikia is a non-commercial company, but that our service is compatible with both -nc and other licenses. -- Sannse 15:48, 20 January 2011 (EST)

Photo Rights

From the FAQ above: "Wikia also has a tool to copy photos from Flickr and host them on the wiki, which can prevent any lost photos (for example, if someone's account is no longer available). " - i.e. Wikia will copy our photos, - is this without regard to rights, and keep their own copies? None of my photos are released with unlimited rights, and this looks like an explicit copyright infringement tool, if it is going to copy photos to keep them live after the owner has deleted them or not extended rights for use on the new site. I have not given permission for a commercial site to use my photos without royalty, and should expect Wikia to remove everyone's photos in the same situation. I will consider allowing use once the situation has settled and rights and commercial issues become clearer, and am likely to continue to contribute textual content - but for the moment, I do not allow Wikia to use my images. (AWCam, 02:35, 28 Jan 2011 (GMT))

This is a tool we have available, not one that has to be used. You can see it at Special:ImportFreeImages or if you click the "add image" icon when editing a page. It's useful in cases where images have been released under a free license and the community wants to ensure that they can continue to use the images... even if there is a problem with the Flick account. I understand there was a case a while back when someone's account was closed on Flickr and images here stopped working - although the use here under a CC license was still valid. We can also use similar tools to import specific freely licensed images to the wiki.

Please see Camerapedia:Community Discussions/Unauthorised use of images here for more on "with permission" images - in short, permission was given to Camerapedia, and Camerapedia still exists (even if with a new host). That permission can be revoked, but it certainly doesn't seem necessary to assume it will be.

For your personal images, if you withdraw permission, then the easiest thing to do is to remove the links. Given a list of images, I can help... but obviously you and the community here are more likely to know exactly what images you mean, and it's as quick to make the changes as it is to list them for me. For offical copyright complaints (which I hope won't be necessary of course) please see our Terms of Use] -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 20:02, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Skin and URL

We are used to have the floating-size standard wiki-page format. Some pages are already designed for broader view, on other pages the authors kept an eye on formatting images and text together so that all fits well in a narrow window and perfectly in a wider screen browser window. I saw that Your humourous Uncyclopedia has that classic floating size page format - free for all non-paying visitors! We would need the free-floating frame-format to go on with our work. It would be also much more than nice if the pages would be shown under www.camerapedia.org adress. These essential points are two very important technical conditions to have at least a glimpse of chance to keep some community together! But You might have learned that there are much more rights issues to solve and even more emotional conditions to achieve a change of mind of certain project founders, main actors an contributors. (U. Kulick 05:50, 21 January 2011 (EST))

Uncyclopedia is an odd case... They are a direct parody of Wikipedia, and so use a similar skin to them in order to reinforce the joke. Other than that unusual situation, we currently use the Wikia skin -- which is a more modern look and one that has a lot more features than the old Monobook skin. The Wikia skin is customizable and can be given a theme by admins, or we can ask our design staff to create a theme for you. If you look around Wikia, you'll see many, varied, themes that will give you an idea of what's possible. Many more examples here.

The major advantage of a fixed-width skin is that you get consistency of view for all readers. One problem we saw with the flexible width framework was those pages you mention that are designed for a broader view - some of your readers will be having problems with those pages already. Although those pages may need initial tweaking, the long-term effect will be a design that works on all screen resolutions and shows off your articles to their best advantage for all viewers. We are available to help with any of these types of page formatting issues during the transition.

We've had quite a few wikis move to us over the years, including Uncyclopedia, and have learned a lot about what works. We've found that the most practical URL to use is a subdomain of wikia.com - Uncyclopedia moved to this URL style a couple of years ago. We will redirect camerapedia.org to the new address, so all old links will still work.

In our experience, the most important part of a move to Wikia is that we can provide a stable long-term home -- and the support to make sure the transition is as comfortable as possible for the whole community. -- Sannse 13:51, 21 January 2011 (EST)