Template talk:Japanese older 6×9

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This is the discussion page for Japanese older 6×9. Click here to start a new topic.

Discussion pages are for discussing improvements to the article itself, not for discussions about the subject of the article.

Large format

6x9 is certainly a lot bigger than 35mm, but I'm surprised to see it called "large format". It doesn't really matter ... or anyway it won't until somebody comes to want to make a similar template for 4x5 and larger cameras. Better to have a different name? -- Hoary 18:48, 5 December 2006 (EST)

It would not be a problem to add tefuda format, 9x12cm, 4x5in, etc., at least for older cameras (see below). But I agree that it could have a better title. --Rebollo fr 19:49, 5 December 2006 (EST)

Oldies only?

Should the big Fujicas -- G690, GW690, etc. -- be added, or is this only for oldies? -- Hoary 18:48, 5 December 2006 (EST)

I think that we need a template for the "modern" Japanese medium format cameras (SLR, RF and autofocus, excluding the TLR). In terms both of camera conception and of reader's interest, there is more similarity between a Fujica GW690 and a GS645W or even a Bronica than with a Pearl Portable.
I would draw the line of "old" vs "modern" around 1965, because it seems that there was a gap between the last amateur medium-format models and the pro lines appearing in the late 1960s. (Again, I'm excluding the TLRs.) For example I know of no 4.5x6 model between the Pearl IV stopped around 1960 and the Mamiya M645 launched in 1975, except perhaps a Konica prototype. Only a few SLR models of the 1960s would fall in between, but it would not be too difficult to settle.
--Rebollo fr 19:49, 5 December 2006 (EST)

So this would perhaps be better titled "Pre-1965 Japanese cameras 6×9 or larger". Um ... that doesn't trip off the tongue very well, does it. Although 1965 isn't arbitrary, it might sound as if it is, encouraging others to put forward, say, "Pre-1984 35mm SLR cameras" merely because they lost interest after 1983 or whatever. Hmm. There was the occasional postwar but pre-1965 6x9 SLR, and it doesn't seem to have much in common with the cameras here, aside from frame size (I think they have more in common with the slightly later monster Mamiya SLRs); whereas there weren't (as far as I remember) any pre-1946 6x9 SLR cameras. How about starting by rethinking this as "pre-1946 Japanese cameras 6×9 or larger" (because the end of the war may be easier to understand than 1965, and also in order to group big SLRs helpfully), and then trying to think of a snappier title for such a collection? -- Hoary 02:56, 6 December 2006 (EST)

"Prewar" seems to mean "prewar and during the war" hereabouts; how about "Prewar 6×9 and larger Japanese cameras"? Though yes, this too is awkward. -- Hoary 05:10, 6 December 2006 (EST)

I guess the 6x9 SLR is the Optika / Rittreck? There is always some model or format that looks like it was created just to defy any classification attempt. Other examples are the Koni-Omegaflex or the postwar Pearl 6x9 that defeats the "Prewar 6×9 and larger" title. The 6x9 format itself is at the edge between medium format (see the Fujicas) and large format (see the Horseman) and it is hard to classify.

We can probably rename the template "Japanese 6×9 and larger", with no mention of a date, and independently create the template "Japanese modern medium-format" containing all the modern designs: all the post-1965 plus a couple of SLRs.

Of course the word "modern" is imperfect in a title and some people think that any camera that predates the Pentax K10D is not modern. But I think that the readers of these articles can accept that the medium-format cameras met a fundamental break in the 1960s and that it is justified to qualify the previous cameras as oldies and the later ones as modern.

It would be much better if this was explained in general thematic articles like the one I attempted to make about the Japanese 4.5×6 folders. But these articles are hard to write in an accurate and concise way: they require detailed knowledge for accuracy and selected oblivion for conciseness, a balance that is hard to keep. I will try to start an article of that sort for each of the "Japanese..." templates, but some of them will remain unsatisfying for a time.

--Rebollo fr 07:23, 6 December 2006 (EST)

The Koni-Omegaflex is a curious camera indeed: an extended Koni-Omega or a monster almost-TLR. Sui generis. But the Optika, the Rittreck, yes..... ¶ I'm happy with the word "modern", if it's explained. But in contradistinction to what -- "older", perhaps? I think one should have something, otherwise the person who happens to look up (say) Pearl will infer from the template that there's nothing about such cameras as the Fujica G690. I appreciate that good articles describing these categories are hard to write, but a brief description within the category -- e.g. (for "Category:Older Japanese 6×9 and above") Japanese cameras producing images of 6×9 and above, made before 1965 (when there was a hiatus in the design and production of such cameras). -- is I think a lot better than nothing. -- Hoary 09:28, 6 December 2006 (EST)
Sorry I didn't notice this post until recently. Do you like the new layout better? I will consider adding short descriptions to the categories and templates. --Rebollo fr 15:43, 11 December 2006 (EST)
Good work. It's fine now. -- Hoary 01:45, 12 December 2006 (EST)